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« Mitt "The Changeling" Romney: Veer Today, Con Tomorrow | Main | To the Shameless, Go the Spoils »

January 16, 2008

Comments

SFGiant

With all due respect, I think you're somewhat suspect in your thinking if you believe Romney would be a more formidable candidate for the Dems in November than John McCain. Say what?

I believe McCain would be far tougher for the Democrats in November - for one thing, though he is strongly for the war in Iraq, he also believes there's global warming out there, he also believes in some type of sensible immigration reform policy. He could definitely win independents and some stray Democrats in November.

You worry about a "Rove like machine" that Romney will be able to carry. Come on, bring it on! Let Romney run as a clone of Bush -don't you know that the majority of this country (including the GOP) wants a change from the last 7 years? And Romney can be torn apart with his fickle positions he's taken on virtually every important social issue.

quousque

Whomever GOPhascists fall for is of slighter concern for America than a now likely uninspiring Democratic contender. Hillary educes nothing, and Barrack's inherent vapidity will ultimately disperse into a dismal Kerry rerun. Edwards could be something to rally around, if the Empire's forces weren't so amassed against his even taking off, much less engage in dog fighting. This is far too early in the election to be so discouraged about our chance of ending what Bush has done to our Noble Experiment, much less actually correcting it ......... so it goes.

DonnaM

I just want to say - with all due respect - that I also disagree with this posting. I (like SF Giant, in his posted comment) think McCain is a far more formidable opponent in a national election than Romney. McCain can probably pull in close to half of of the Independent vote - possibly more, if he plays his cards right! Romney has little or no chance of doing that. Plus, Romney's well-publicized waffling on major issues over the years - and the concern over his non-mainstream religion - are big drawbacks for many GOP voters. Romney as the GOP presidential nominee would probably cause a significant rift in the Republican establishment's support - nearly as big as Giuliani would! McCain is a much safer bet for the GOP - most Republicans aren't crazy about him, but they can stomach him, if they need to, and will probably just vote the party line if he's their nominee. In contrast, many so-called "values voters" in the GOP would NOT be able to get past Romney's Mormon religion, nor his prior liberal stances on such things as abortion and gun control, and would probably stay home in huge numbers. Remember - Michigan is pretty much a northeast state, so GOPers there aren't as religiously bigoted as their colleagues in the south and the "bible belt"! Plus, Mitt's a Michigan prodigal son - they overlooked alot of his "questionables" cause he's a home-town-boy. Not so in the rest of the country. In fact, I sincerely doubt Romney will able to come in first in any of the other GOP primaries across the nation. He'll be second in many, but I really doubt he'll win any others. It's McCain who's the real threat - so we need to take some steam out of him, if we can. He's been on a roll of late - but Mitt's win in Michigan will now serve to extend the mano-a-mano competition between them. That will give Mitt a chance to damage McCain some more (politically), and will also force McCain to spend more of the $s in his coffers, so that he goes into the national election without too many $s to spend on negative ads agains the Dem nominee. Hopefully, that'll allow us to evict the GOP from the White House this year. (Then on to the next challenge - pushing the entire Dem establishment to be more progressive; more focused on the people's concerns, and less beholden to corporate interests!)

Kimberly

I wholeheartedly disagree about your assessment of Edwards in the debate. I am an Edwards supporter and his passionate, reasoned answers helped to solidify that backing. At this point in the 'game', Edwards is marginalized by the press on his issues and ridiculed loudly on his so-called "anger" when he does actually get even remotely passionate in the debate with the other candidates. He can't win by ratcheting it up to another level - not in this climate where our media outlets purposely continue to 'miss the point'.

Those of us who know Edwards and his platform don't need the controversy that the press would trumpet as "combative" "angry" and vitriolic. Those who are undecided won't hear his viewpoint over the prolonged extraneous Edwards bashing that comes from his so-called "anger".

Hillary and Obama have OBVIOUSLY gotten the message that Edward's voice is being heard and we saw that in the not-so-subtle re-positioning of their views last night. Edwards is STILL where he's been all along, and the other two are moving somewhat leftward to join him. GOOD. The message is sinking in. But is that a failing on Edwards' part? I think not.

cygnusx1isahole

The entire Progressive Blogosphere is Missing the Point this Morning! The issue of the day is Corporate Power over the Media! It should be unacceptable to anyone who is a Democrat that a Corporation should decide who should be allowed to debate. Whether you support Dennis Kucinich or not this is an outrage.

The corporations are the cause of almost every major problem in this country. The blatant bullying last night by General Electric/GE in taking Dennis all the way to the Nevada Supreme Court to deny him the right to speak to his party requires no great focus or vision to see. It was despicable. If this doesn't make you angry then perhaps you're not really a Democrat. The fact that the entire Progressive Blogosphere is silent is suspicious. Either all these otherwise smart people have suddenly gone stupid or they have their own agenda.

Mooser

Oguess it's about that stage where the hysteria has become general, and once again everyone is assuming there is some substance to the candidates. That's dumb.
Time to tune out the election. See ya' next year.

Kimberly

I agree with cygnusx about Kucinich and corporate bullying. It's a vicious cycle in our political climate now. They control the message and how it is presented. What to do? Not much it would seem until there is a significant shift in political balance. Next November? One would hope - that is if our Dems are really on board with that shift.

I believe Edwards is, and he is barely getting his voice heard by the media. Kucinich is the best candidate, hands down, but how many people do we each know are actively researching his positions and voting for him? We have control of the vote, and yet allow our corporate bullies to control the message we receive.

Diane

I agree with SFGiant and DonnaM- McCain is the candidate who will prove the hardest to beat. The Religious Right makes a lot of noise and much is made by the media of how the candidates need to pander to them however, I think everyone has underestimated the voting power of the rest of the Republican Party and also Independents who might vote Republican. McCain may have sold his soul to the Bush devils a while back but he isn't a religious crackpot and the only candidate for a sane Republican minded person. I think Independents would be more likely to vote for a Democrat over a religious nut too.

Also, I think there are A LOT of Hillary haters out there. They might chose Obama over McCain but they will never vote for Hillary. They will hold their noses and vote for her opponent no matter how bad he is because they don't want her to win.

Tim Hollis

That's why the GOP loves Hillary. She may buy the nomination but doesn't stand a chance in the election.
Actually, neither do the other poltroons.
Maybe it's time for all so-called progressives to unite behind Kucinich, the real frontrunner. But that would mean a cure for battered wife syndrome suffered by Democrats.

Zee

Well, it seems like a consensus that this column was a rare BOMB for pm.

Wrong on all accounts. I was thrilled Mittwit won...he's definitely the bumbling fool we want to oppose in the general election.

Thank HEAVENS and all the BREATHARIANS that Mrs. Kook convenes with in the rarefied kook conventions in Colorado (look it up) that the network prevailed in keeping Mr. Kook off the stage. If he is so all-fired eager to debate, why not debate his congressional contender, Gold Star Mom Rosemary Palmer, who has been patiently waiting for him to even give her the courtesy of a response to her request for a primary debate. Whenever I mention this to Kucinich Kult members in person they inevitably dismiss Rosemary as having "no chance" to unseat Kookcinich. Exactly. Then he should quit whining because he doesn't get a seat with the real contenders for the presidential race.

And, most importantly of all. If you dozed because the debate was boring, well, stfu already. Apparently you missed the sparks of the very kind of personal sniping the MSM encourages. I found the debate very interesting, as was the last one. The best part is that all the Dems have a chance to present real issues beyond sound bytes.

They still got zingers in on each other, but what I saw was candidates who took the game back from the MSM.


Zee

Oh, and although I don't think his campaign is all that sharp...they are bumbling compared to the slick candidates...there is plenty of time to support Edwards and his message and fight back against the MSM coronation/s going on. Another reason why it was such a mercy Kucinich wasn't there. Progressives should've been flocking to John Edwards from the beginning. Especially those who somehow think that Obama's message of holding hands with rethugs and independents represents a good, forward move...as effin if. All you need to know about Obama is that he supported Lieberman over Lamont after Dem primary voters wanted a real Dem for their state. He's a Lieberman independent...he's not even a Dem.

jeff zahn

Something happened this past week, culminating in the nationally televised Nevada debate, that should be being touted as perhaps the most significant shift in Barack Obama’s favor, and a “Where’s the beef?” point he can sell big time.

In answering the question about his strengths, and in his consistent theme throughout his campaign, Barack Obama talks about bringing people together. Well, after just barely a week of burgeoning nastiness in the Democratic Party over a most divisive topic such as race, Obama can truly lay claim to being an engine of healing. His speech to reporters the day before the debate, and the conciliatory tone he managed to squeeze out of the Clintons, are significant points Obama scored and his supporters should be pointing to vigorously.

The Clintons are powerful, dirty pool players, but I have loved them for years, in a large part because they are our dirty pool players. They play the Republican game and beat them at it. And that is the game they have been trying to play with Obama, with some success in New Hampshire, and were hoping to capitalize on over the past week as they sought to embroil Barack in the race issue. It is the sort of Reagan vs. Russia mentality – we may destroy ourselves in the process, but we are betting we bring you down first, and besides, we are confident in our slick ability to rise from the ashes.

But Obama can take credit for completely changing the playing field before anybody got too hurt. He can say that because of his refusal to continue participating in the Clinton politics-as-usual war of the past, he returned quickly and decisively to the higher ground and inspired Hillary to follow. Barack Obama brought the Democratic Party back together when all the pundit-jackals were cackling that the party was about to tear itself apart, again.

And that is what Barack does best. There is the beef Hillary has been asking for him to show, and she helped serve it up herself. If Barack Obama can bring the notoriously self-devouring Democratic Party back together so quickly, if he can get Bill and Hillary to play nice, on his terms, he really can lay claim to the ability to bring together an America desperate for unity and bipartisanship.

Sure, there will always be some fringe wingnuts who won’t come into an Obama tent, but this past week, and the congenial Nevada debate, go a long way to confirming that Barak Obama really does walk the walk.

Chris Herz

Allan Nairn (the brave journalist who nearly got himself killed covering the massacres in Indonesia) has hit the nail on the head. "The only possible winner in 2008 will be US violence and terror."

All likely winners of this contest support continued war in Iraq at one level or another and seem ready to support its expansion into Iran, again at one level or another.

It seems they wouldn't mind taking a shot at Venezuela too.

I can't vote for one of these creeps myself, but it would not break me up were one of the Repubs to take the election: At least the stupider of the corporate factions would be in charge of the asylum.

Bush & Co. have done more to wreck the imperial project than any of us on the left could ever have managed.

Chris Herz
[email protected]

Jay Randal

Since Kucinich was barred from the debate, by corporate owners of MSNBC
twisting arms of the Nevada Supreme Court, the whole event was a circus. Made me ill just to see clips of it on CNN. I hope the network is forced into bankruptcy when its broadcast license is revoked by Congress.

Peter Young

Mitt won in Michigan largely because 1) his dad is a somewhat fondly remembered (blurred by the mists of time) three time governor, so Mitt can claim special sympathy and understanding with 2) a state that has been in full blown recession since 2001, and getting worse. When Mitt says I am from Michigan and I will make it all better, people wanted to believe it. That won't fly anywhere else.

Richard

Mccain a strong candidate some of you say? Theres a photo of the guy hugging Bush ya know. The same Bush that called his adopted daughter the progeny of an extramarital affair with a prostitute. McCain will be very easy to take down as simply : "Four More"

pwa

I disagree on Romney. When he says he will be the candidate of change, the Democratic nominee can agree and simply tick off the list of times Mitt has changed his position on a host of major issues.

George

I said this about Kucinich:

Hey Ari I got it now. Tell everybody to back a Kucinich/Gravel ticket tell r.p. jock strap supporters to go suck eggs become EX r.p. supporters and give their money and vote to Kucinich/Gravel if they want to REALLY save their country. Kucinich’s only real failing is his nasty flirtation with that sack a shit r.p. Once he sees his supporters start supporting HIM he’ll be alright. Remember the guy is trying to keep doing his SENATOR’s job like he was elected to do and he’s doing the best he can with his tax payer paycheck and THEN he campaignskissesbabysdebatestakesshit. Ya need Gravel for the ZEN.

January 14, 2008 at 2:43 pm

George

Here’s the inaugaration song I’ll personally sing to the gentlemen and AMERICA!:

WELLLL da Eagle been flyin’ slow (near dead)
An’ tha flag been flyin’ low
WHOLE LOTTA people figgered ameriKKKa was fixin’ to fall
AWW But take it, not just from me, but my homeboy ARI see
Weeee gotta couple a things to tell y’all
The ol’ lady damn right stumbled - but she hain’t quite, yet, fell
AND IF BUSH/CHENEY TOO STUPID TO SEE THAT THEN THEY WILL WHEN WE PUTEM IN HELL!

WE GONNA PUT OUR FEETS BACK ON THE PATH OF
RIGHTEOUSNESS AND THEN

GOD BLESS, AMERICA, AGAIN!!!!!!

And ya never did think that it ever woulda happened again!

In AMERICA!

Ya never did thinks that we would EVER gets together again

WE DAMN SHOR’ FOOLED YOU!
WE WALKIN
REAL PROUD!
AND WE TALKIN’
REAL LOUD!
AGIIIIIIINNNN, in Amurika
Ya never DID think we could ever make it happen again

Now from the shores of Long Island
Round bouts to Frisco Bay EVERYTHING in between is OUR HOME

Now its TRUE we have our tussles now and then but you LYIN’ TRAITORS

BEST Leave us alone…

Cuz WE (the people) ALWAYS stick together
And you can take that to a REAL BANK!

That’s the Ari’s and the Georges, and the Silbeys(?), BUT HELL YEAH HANK!

Y’all just TRY to lay yo’ hand on a Buffalo Sabres fan and I THINK you would FINALLY understand

call Charlie’s lawyers…tellem ta sue me

KUCINICH/GRAVEL IF YOU GOT STONES

Holla

January 14, 2008 at 2:54 pm

eric

I think no greater contribution could be made to this thread. Unless it were a streaming mp3 of that.

January 14, 2008 at 6:11 pm

George

Signin’ up KUCINICH/GRAVEL Eric? Add ‘im to the list Ari

January 14, 2008 at 7:58 pm

George

Eric,

I’ll sing the mp3 for you if you vote Kucinich/Gravel. Tell Ari to give you my e-mail so he can e-mail me what to do, since he’s a world runnin’ jew and everything. Now I am a disreputable darky without a job or any connections so you’ll have to get Ari to pay a studio to hook me up in Buffalo. I’ll need a band too. Then I’ll send YOU a burned CD version first. You don’t like it tell me to give YOU Ari’s jew money back and stop wasting your time. If you like it go get a hunnert votes for KUCINICH/GRAVEL with it and then I’ll make you a video.

See you at the February caucuses suckers….

VOTE KUCINICH/GRAVEL

January 15, 2008 at 10:45 am

George

Here’s another song to take with you when you vote KUCINICH/GRAVEL in February:

See me comin’ at you suckas on yo’
PLASMA TV screen
Bout’ as HOT as ahma’ get
You know what I mean?
I MEAN You got “LIBERALS” to the left of me and

conservatives REAL far away on my right….

PUT down the gun

Fool FUCK YO’ KNIFE

Have the sense not to start no fight…

Yah wanna know why?

Do you WANT to know WHY?

Do you REALLY want to know WHY?

KUZZOM!!!

T N T

I’m DYNOMITE

T N T

America Gonna Win THIS Fight

T N T

I’m a powa load

T N T

Watch! Tic Tic Tic Tic Tic Tic Tic Tic

It’s too late too soon too late too soon tooo late tooo soon….

Or Is It? hmmmmm……..

Hear the sound of the fallen rain y’all?
COMIN’ DOWN! like an

AR MA GED ON FLAME!!!!

the shame
the ones who died without a name

HEAR DEM FUCKS SNARLIN’ OUTTA KEY?!!!!!

To THIER hymn called

“FOCK AND FOCK KER REE” HEY!! (MASH IT DOWN LION!!!)

And bleed

THE COMPANY LOST THEIR WAR TODAY!!!

CUZ!

I

Beg to Dream and Differ
from YO’ Fuckin’ liezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz…………………

THIS IS THE DAWNING OF THE REST OF OUR LIVES HOLLADAY

FOR U.S. US SUCKERS

NOT YOU!

BAILIFF: ALL RISE! COURT IS NOW IN SESSION JUDGE BUFFALO GEORGE PRESIDING…..

Be seated.

Sheriff Hank! Bring in the (sigh) Accused.

Prosecutor Ari!

Your honor!

Are the people ready to go forth with their case and have the accused been informed of their rights?

Prosecutor We ARE your honor! And they HAVE!

(Sigh) DeFENsive counsel The UNITED STATES OF AMERICA RESPECTS the RIGHTS of ALL accused. Have YOUR rights been respected?

Karl Rove Duh uh eehaaa duh ahhhh…..

Scooter We are prepared to mount a VIGOROUS defense.

THEN LET US RECORD THIS DAY !

THE TRIAL OF:

WE THE PEOPLE

VS.

GEORGE BUSH / DICK CHENEY et. al.

Shall NOW begin…..

Brian Mallon

What is wrong with these three creeps? They want us to believe they are qualified to preside over a democracy and they condone shutting out the only OTHER opinion in the race. They should have said NO. The election is a year away all we should all be heard. It was another Democratic 'Don't taze me, Bro' moment! Like Kerry standing by while someone's rights are trampled. Corporations have NO right to decide who is heard!

ras

Edwards needs to start showing his stuff. If he is to go after Corporate America, he can start by outing' Clinton and Obama now!

Edwards also ~ should have declined Nevada when Kucinich was not allowed to participate. If Edwards is going to 'talk the talk' (for the little man) then he'd best start 'walking the walk'.

Dana Hatch

I disagree on Romney. When he says he will be the candidate of change, the Democratic nominee can agree and simply tick off the list of times Mitt has changed his position on a host of major issues.

posted by pwa

One would think! But will they? Did Gore or Kerry trash Bush for his myriad personal failings, his abysmal record in Texas, or his stupidity? No! The Democrats will once again grease the skids for a Republican victory by refusing to fight. The MSM will portray Clinton and Obama as candidates who feel entitled to the office because of their gender/race and another Republican white male, with no qualms against attacking his opponent on any grounds, will win. Nancy Pelosi acting as a firewall against impeachment of Bush/Cheney ia a perfect example of the Democrats' duplicity.

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