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« This Hurts Me More Than It Will You, Mr. Krugman | Main | For McCain, From Bad Dreams to Nightmares -- Courtesy Barack Obama »

February 13, 2008

Comments

Realist

I agree with your assessment of Hillary and her campaign prospects, but I don't discount her (and Bill's) ambition.

It was "White House Or Bust Someone In The Chops" from the beginning, so I don't see Hillary dropping out. I honestly can see her breaking out a third-party attempt if she loses too many more of the remaining primary events, especially if Huckabee decides to take the radical Old Testament evangelicals away from McCain and run outside the GOP. Then we will repeat a lesson from 1860 that this nation should have already learned - a regionally segmented election leads to worse problems later on.

Like this country needs any more troubles!

Clemsy

One wonders whether or not people are moving toward Obama because Clinton's strategies are so obviously old school: spin.

Spin is a gentle synonym for sophistry and the more the Clinton campaign uses it, the ore people will decide they've had enough of it.

The respectful decision of a campaign manager to take off for the good of the campaign is heard by every one as "she got kicked out on her keister." Hillary's second greatest weakness is the perception that she's disingenuous. People are sick of it, especially after Bush has taken it, as he's taken everything else a sober man would despise, to astronomical heights.

Oh yes, in case your wondering... Hillary's greatest weakness is the rabid hatred the right wing has for her that will have them coming out of the woodwork, not so much to ensure McCain wins, but to ensure she and Bill stay out of the White House.

Elmer

Senator Clinton would make a good Secretary of Defense in an Obama-Webb Administration.

Catfish

I have never understood the rabid hatred of the Right against the Clintons because I have always perceived them as Blue Dog (Republican Lite)Democrats. I am similarly nonplussed by Obama because of his "moderate" policies.

But I do understand the contempt of the Clintons by a large segment of Democrats. It all comes down to their support of the Iraq War. Once the Clintons gave the Neo-Cons and the Bush administration cover, those of us who questioned (and only questioned)the war were villified and abused in all quarters.

The anger and contempt does not arise from the vote, but from a widely-held rightly or wrongly) belief that it was cast based on a cynical calculation of it help in a presidential bid.

But that was not all. Edwards, who I supported for his weakly-help progressive policies, did the same. I was able to forgive him because he confessed his sin and at least appeared to have repented of it.

I am still waiting for Billary to confess and repent. I suppose I will be waiting a long time.

But there is Obama's base, and it will hold. As he continues to seem more and more legitimate and viable, his base will expand.

It really is this simple, and I am surprised that it is rarely acknowledged.

Will B

Good assessments by everyone. You should all have your own blogs! I especially agree with Catfish on the Iraq War position. The only explanation why it's not often mentioned is that the war (occupation) is on haitus in the MSM, and thank God things have improved from the mehem of 1 year ago (from 7th Ring of Hell to 3rd Ring!). I would add Hillary's backing of the Iran-is-a-Terrorist-State bill and what that could lead to adds to my fear of her as President (even as Senator). I wish it weren't so, but she reminds me of Joe Lierberman in drag.

Clemsy

"I am still waiting for Billary to confess and repent. I suppose I will be waiting a long time."

Too late. If they do, it will be perceived as politically expedient and, again, disingenuous. To admit to error over the war now will harm them more than help them.

"I have never understood the rabid hatred of the Right against the Clintons because I have always perceived them as Blue Dog (Republican Lite)Democrats."

Understand it in this way: The Clintons were the target of a brilliant, well orchestrated and tenacious propaganda campaign that spanned eight years. The echo chamber resounded with so much for so long that the Clinton's demonhood took on mythological proportions.

Bill's indiscretions served only to validate everything by association, the idiot.

Bill Clinton was the most truly conservative president in recent history. More so even than His Divine Lord Ronnie.

But still, he was outside the tribe.

You watch as they start the same campaign against Obama if he wins the nomination and the White House.

Of course they'd prefer Hillary. The work's already done and filed.

mbarnato

I think Hillary Clinton would make a good Senate Majority Leader...

Realist

I'd like to broaden Catfish's horizons a little bit.

While Hillary's votes to support the Terror War Against Terror do cause me to boil, the false promises made by Bill in 1992 to provide all Americans with better health care (botched badly by Ms Clinton) began the decline in my respect for them. Then, with the passage of NAFTA (pushed through Congress by Bill) and then GATT (which led to extra-national governmental interference in our domestic law), that put the rancid icing on the crummy Clinton cake.

The absolute last straw was an article late in 2006, shortly after the mid-term elections were completed, which reported that many presidential hopefuls - including both Hillary and John McCain - were busy pitching Wall Street financiers for their support. I interpreted this at the time as they were all auditioning their administration platforms to the money men to at least neutralize their opposition if they couldn't win outright support (See: Rupert Murdoch's fund raising for Hillary while openly supporting McCain).

So while Hillary's pro-war votes do count against her, I hope I've demonstrated that they were hardly the beginning of the evidence that she is willing to sell out this nation to realize her ambitions.

wilmaP

As usual PM hits the nail on the head.

Like the Repigs, Hillary has nothing left.

Once she is officially out, we need to rally around Obama despite any reservations we may have. He offers some hope. Also having an African-American President would go a long way towards mending relations with the world.

By the way, I am a white 60 year old woman who is a progressive. That is why I strongly oppose Hillary - not because of some irrational hatred towards the Clintons.

Clemsy

"I am a white 60 year old woman who is a progressive. That is why I strongly oppose Hillary - not because of some irrational hatred towards the Clintons."

Good reason! If the wingnuts checked in here even once they'd see the real libs don't like her 'cause she's too far to the right.

Let me tell you, I'm not thrilled about Obama for the same reason.

But at least he's something new...

Lew Scannon

You have to remember that Ohio has all those Diebold programmed voting machines, so it wouldn't take much for the corpocracy to throw the election Hillary's way.

Paul

It's Obama all the way to the presidency!

An end to war and a return to optimism - I'm loving this!

Hotrod

PM,
What is all this bullshit about "hatred" being bandied about? When citizens have arrived at a position against a politician for outrageous behavior or a policy because it stinks it is not "hatred" to oppose that person or policy vehemently, if needed. It used to be called citizenship and participatory democracy, but no more. It's likely to get you tasered these days. PS As an Edwards supporter, I am cool to the two remaining lightweights, but upon careful examination of who is advising who, you must give the nod to Obama. Hillary will bring more of the same old crap!

ras

President Obama

Make your adjustments now. This is a high-octane-train-a-rolling and it won't be stopped. And ~ no Independent run will side track the Obama train.

Wes Clark: Vice Pres.

John Edwards: Attorney General.

Hillary and Bill: Stay home.

Sideshot: Can anyone imagine Dubya on the lecture circuit? lol!

robertsgt40

Just wondering. Does Diebold have any influence in these upcoming primaries

lastbbastionofreason

"I am experienced and can get the job done" Hillary says. That's her selling point. That and I am tested, they have thrown everything at me and I know how to fight them and win. No she didn't and no she can't! She and Bill had 8 years to get all Americans health care and they did not. They tried, got slapped down and quit. THEY JUST QUIT! The most improtant thing for Americans, to make us a healthier people and to save us from going broke because of health care, and they quit! Give a new generation a chance. I am a 58 year old white woman and I support Obama. The only reason I would vote for Hillary in the general election is because of the judges that will be appointed. Supreme Court especially. If not for that, I would vote green party or something else. Never McCain! Think he is worse than Bush and I never thought there was a possiblity that anyone could be worse than Bush!

Mooser

That Bette Davis crack was not worthy of you.

Old Coot

The thing that turns me off with MRS. William J. Clinton is that she is Mrs. William J. Clinton. If she walks into the White House she will share her bagage with Bill Clinton. I had enough of him when he was in the White House.The Clintons are in the past. We need new blood in Washington. I heard on the radio today that Bush is pushing for a ten year farm bill rewarding all the big corporate farms. That will put it into law well past the first turm of the next elected presedent and all of congress. A great statesmen comes along maybe every generation. A statesmem thinks about the next generation, a politician thinks of the next election. I personely think that Obama is our chance to elect a statesmen as presedent, if he lives that long.

Elmer

It's "Blue Tick" Democrats.

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