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« George Will finds his inner Pegler | Main | Not anarchy, just chaos »

July 26, 2011

Comments

fbacon

Thanks, PM. I was actually about to email you, begging for a response. I even emailed Sullvan's blog about it, since he doesn't allow comments. Frum's post is a collection of strawmen arguments and false assumptions that usually would get a more critical response from Sully.

The Obama-as-weak-negotiator has been a strange and unproven meme percolating from the lefty blogs since 2009, and it's usually a cudgel used by his political opponents. It was only a matter of time for it to go mainstream, all evidence to the contrary, given enough time and repetition -- or maybe a looming default will do the trick. Bad outcomes must be the result of bad tactics, right?

Bulworth

See, now that wasn't so hard, was it?

From CNN:

Washington (CNN)—A day after competing nationally televised speeches by President Barack Obama and House Speaker John Boehner, talks on a debt ceiling deal to avert a government default next week generated fresh hostility Tuesday amid some signs of possible movement.


While political leaders continued sniping at each other’s latest proposals, conservative Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell called for renewed negotiations with Obama and indicated his party must be willing to move away from some of its demands.


“We are going to have to get back together and get a solution here,” McConnell said of formal talks with the White House and congressional Democrats. “We cannot get a perfect solution, from my point of view, controlling only the House of Representatives. So I am prepared to accept something less than perfect because perfect is not achievable.”

(snip)


Following Obama’s call Monday night for the public to push their elected representatives for a deal, Capitol Hill phone lines were jammed and websites of key lawmakers—including House Speaker John Boehner—crashed as citizens from coast to coast tried to weigh in on the debate.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/07/26/debt.talks/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

nepat

@Bulworth -

That wingnut crazy train is one wild ride. So, last night Boehner refuses to compromise and blames Obama for everything on national TV and today they're back to wanting to negotiate? Huh? Are people buying this?

PM - not sure what's up with Sullivan this week. He's back in P-town and dialing it in from the beach, I guess. He's been conspicuously quiet on the debt crisis - which he usually ominously characterizes as the Greatest Moral Threat to the Republic of All Time. I blame ocean views.

As for Frum? Whatever.

Great post, btw. The Republicans are completely imploding, the media is deeply confused, people still like Obama, but nothing's changed!

Robert Lipscomb

Obama's original position was for a clean raising of the debt ceiling. Any perceived deviation from that by Obama is political poker.

There is virtually no time to pass budget legislation. That leaves everyone with one choice - pass a clean debt ceiling (whuich can be written and passed in two hours) or throw the government and economy into chaos. Obama knew that last night, even if his opponents and the punditry did not. So he made the simple point last night, "It's their fault if it happens."

He can veto any bogus legislation passed by the House GOP, but he doesn't need to. It will never pass the senate.

So, he gets what he originally asked for and bloodies the GOP in doing so. He now has the Democratic Party in his back pocket. After this, every thinking GOP in DC will be scared to death of Obama.

Masterful. Simply masterful.

I never ever never want to play poker with Obama.

janicket

Indeed, Robert, never play poker with a man named Obama.

Have you noticed how, one by one, he's been taking the perceived strengths/talking points/wedge issues of the GOP and deflating them? The wars? Iraq winding down, Afghanistan surged, now scheduled to begin winding down. DADT repealed through the Pentagon, not by Presidential fiat. Terrorism in the person of bin Laden -- kablooie. And now the whole debt/deficit club, he's taken that away from the GOP, exposed them for the poseurs they are, and is calmly, methodically beating them about the head and shoulders with it.

wtf

"No one could have predicted..."? Please. The Republican Vice Presidential candidate, on the campaign trail, practically accused Obama of being a terrorist. Hell, Hilary Clinton during the primaries implied he might not be a Christian. The GOP, following Karl Rove's lead, is notorious for their brazen hypocrisy and for attacking opponents on their strength. So your idea that innocent Obama couldn't have known what was coming is bullshit. This "savvy" Chicago pol with Rahm at his back should have known full well the type and intensity of attacks he would face. Does his vanity of post-partisanship get in the way? Does he spend too much time on the golf course? Is he in thrall of the "savvy businessmen" and the best and the brightest? Is he indifferent to the plights of those who do not have a Harvard degree? I don't know. But please stop with the 11-dimensional chess and sainthood. At some point Obama is responsible for his own failures. You can't blame it all on the Republicans and the progressives.

But please, do call progressives "morons" a few more times. That name calling is the mark of a fine mind and is really great for coalition building in the Democratic Party. It's also wonderful and so refreshing to see "moron" used as an epithet. Those defenseless people with their with developmental disabilities really need to be taken down a peg. Nice.

Bobfr

Boehner is now so far into the corner he's becoming the corner .... the more extreme he behaves the more glaringly obvious to all but the totally deluded it will become that the President and Democratic Party are the only ones standing between assured destruction of the solvency and trust in the US Government and a pack of nihilists.

When the very white, and mostly under-privileged, under-educated segment of America confronted the reality of a black President on the morning of 5 November 2008, and succumbed willingly to the very white, very wealthy manipulative few, the makings of the 2nd American Civil War was set in motion. No question about it as the actions of these confederate traitors speak for themselves.

Move forward 2 years - 2 years of unprecedented Republican intransigence no more glaringly obvious than the number of cloture votes forced by Republicans in the US Senate - all costing jobs and harming the recovery of the American economy while also denying those deserving of a DREAM Act and much more.

Anyone paying attention knew that the crystallizing issue, the singularity would be raising the debt limit - from the moment the teabaggers emerged on election night 2010 as ideologically united confederates in the destruction of President Obama at whatever cost required.

Yes, indeed, at the cost of perpetrating a collapse of both America's and the world's economy.

This is not hyperbole. This is a mere statement of fact.

Others, much more eloquent and erudite than I ever will be have been delivering this message.

When you live within a calamity in the making - America between 1850 and 1861; Germany between 1927 and 1939; etc - most people do not see it coming. The few that do are often the first victims of the reality of which they tried to warn.

We live within such a calamity. We are counting hours now.

The only hope we have is that some of the ultra-wealthy along with our dear President, Senator Reid and his colleagues, Speaker Pelosi and her colleagues will manage to forge a halt. Otherwise, a week from now no one will have ever experienced what happens - including those whom happen to still be alive that lived through 9-10 November 1938 and all that cascaded thereafter.

Yes.We.Can. ... DO.More.Together!

nepat

@wtf -

Another self-important, moralizing progressive scold! (or Republican troll - hard to tell) Too much time on the golf course? For real? And Rahm? So 2009. What's next? A "Barry" reference? Arugula?

Bobfr

All of the above, nepat

janicket

But wtf forgot Gitmo! The first, perhaps the greatest of betrayals! Or was that the public option?

So many specious cudgels.... so little time............

wtf

One question: Please tell me what "opposition" existed during the first 2 years of Obama's term. He had a commanding degree of control over the White House AND Congress. Anything that did or did not occur from January 2009, until January 2011, is squarely on the Democrats' shoulders.

RTN

Any analysis of the current political climate that lays all the blame at the feet of the crazy GOP is obviously biased. The current crazies on the right were created by the current crazies on the left.

If the dems hadn't tried to jerk the country so hard to the left so quickly, the Tea Party wouldn't even exist. Once the lefties showed they were willing to totally trash any hope of recovery by pushing through their ideological agenda at all costs, the righties decided they could play that game too.

The Tea Party is playing the part of Nemesis to the Liberal's Hubris. It's the beauty of the American political system. Each action produces an equal and opposite reaction to try and keep things balanced.

And all the while both extremes howl in rage about how it's all the other side's fault.

Brassia

This Plum is total prick!Bailouts, GM bailout, Housing bailout,mortgage adjustments with bailouts,cash for clunkers, etc, etc....trillions of dollars amount to squat...economy in the tnk. The clueless Usurper-in-chief had it his way for 2.5 years destroyed the country and economy, drove businesses out of USA and now he is crying that republicans jeopardize his chances of reelection. Country be damned- it is all about this narcissistic baffoon in WH.

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