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« Last night's real disgrace | Main | We're back in flip-flopping heaven! »

October 04, 2012

Comments

Robert Lipscomb

Plato describes this dilema in one of his writings (The Republic?). He notes that the best judge is one who is truly good, but that same person will be a bad judge in his youth because he will erroneously believe everyone is as good as him. So he must spend many years suffering at the mands of bad men to acquire the wisdom to be a good judge.

A more recent quote is good judgment is what you acquire from exercising bad judgment.

the good news is Obama is a pretty quick learner and the Chicago boys are pretty good teachers.

japa21

I do think that Obama at times has a higher judgment of the general population than it deserves. And sometimes that is, if not a failing, then a weakness of his.

At the same time, a general problem relating to debates in general when there is an incumbent running against a challenger is that the challenger only has to worry about the debate. The incumbent has all his/her other job responsibilities to be concerned wit, such as the situation with Turkey and Syria.

Obama generally is pretty capable of separating the two, i.e. the correspondents dinner while the OBL situation was developing. But it does limit his ability to toally prepare.

Peter G

I wonder what Obama might learn from the game tapes, as it were, that he would, given his nature, change. I am not even sure I watched the same debate as everyone else. I do not pretend to know what people who say he "lost" the debate even mean. It clearly isn't that their own minds were changed but only that they feared that Romney's arguments were more powerful or persuasive than Obama's and therefore likely to change other people's minds. People presumably, less enlightened or more intelligent than themselves. Who's that exactly among the crowd who watched?

Peter G

Pardon me but that should obviously been "less" intelligent in the post above.

japa21

Well, Sununu is out there saying Obama lost because he is "lazy" and he won't be any better in the next debate because "when you aren't that bright you can't be better prepared."

This isn't a dog whistle any more, it is a dog air raid siren.

Marc McKenzie

@japa21:

"I do think that Obama at times has a higher judgment of the general population than it deserves. And sometimes that is, if not a failing, then a weakness of his."

Well...if that is the case, then what should he do about it? Have a cynical, basement-level judgement of the gen-pop--see them only as sheeple (hat that term, but hey...)? That's the thinking of Nixon and GWB. I'm not trying to knock you down here--you made a good observation--but it seems that the only other alternative is for Obama to decide that the gen-pop are only fools.

That type of thinking is for extremists at the edges of the political views.

As for Romney...he 'won' by lying is @$$ off (which is what Thom Hartman has been pointing out for some time now). I saw a man flinging out more lies and distortions and basically being a freaking putz. If THAT is what pundits are looking for in a President, then we are all in trouble.

....Oh wait, I forgot about the pundits and 2000. My mistake.

Robert Lipscomb

If lies had wings, Romney would be an airport.

japa21

Marc, I don't expect him to do that. I just think he needs to take it into consideration, and he probably already is. One of the problems with the whole health care debate is he believed, by his own admission, that the public would see through the Tea Parties claims and recognize the positiveness of the act. As a result, the administration did not make a full scale defense and neither did other Dems.
It isn't a question of speaking doen to the mass's level, but recognizing that you can't assume they will understand something automatically.

Marc McKenzie

@japa21:

Understood. If it seemed that I was being rather harsh, I apologize for that.

You are right about the HCR fight--I remember when despite the constant barrage from the TP, the support from Dem and Progressives was either lukewarm to being outright hostile against the bill (the "Kill the Bill!" faction and Dave Lindorff's nonsense comes to mind).

"It isn't a question of speaking doen to the mass's level, but recognizing that you can't assume they will understand something automatically."

...Definitely correct on this one.

As for P.M.'s title--the sad truth is that we've had the "viper" in the White House from 2001-2009. Are the pundits aware how this worked out, or have they flushed it down the memory hole?

HLH

A very astute analysis. This is one I can fully agree with and accept about last night's debate. I personally don't think it was as bad as all the liberal punditry has been apoplectic about. Of course, I didn't see the debate. I listened it to in my car on the road and it sounded substantive to me in that I could clearly tell that Romney was lying and changing his positions and Obama was trying to explain his. That's what I heard. But your analogy of the thinker versus the viper are spot on. Romney is a "refined" snake oil salesman and it's easy for people to get suckered by him because he looks clean-cut. But a snake is a snake to me, no matter how pretty it is or how many colors it has. I wish people would wise up about him.

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