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Your host, PM 'Papa' Carpenter


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May 06, 2016


They were protesting the wrong candidate.

But then again, it's sad to see that some Sanders supporters are still firing at the wrong target. That's been par for the course for the far Left for too long now--more interested in slamming Democrats and pulling out the tired, zombified canard/meme about how "both parties are the same" and that Hillary (and Obama for that matter) are really Republicans.

Meanwhile the GOP is set to nominate someone who has no right to ever walk make it into the White House, a Frankenstein's monster that they helped create.

I saw something similar in 2000 with the Naderites and their attacks on Al Gore (and leaving Bush out of the line of fire). Sixteen years later, sadly, nothing has really changed.

Let's hope the end result isn't equivalent. At least this time we can pretty sure the candidate won't be distancing themselves from the relatively popular incumbent President.

Clinton did a very smart thing. Rather than engage such people and argue with them as has become a popular thing to do (though seldom successful) she let them prematurely shut down her speech. And anyone who was there to hear her speech will be righteously pissed at the boorish behavior of those clowns. There probably wasn't anything she could have said that would have better cemented her supporters to her while at the same time emphasizing what little such nitwits really think of democracy and free speech.

"I saw something similar in 2000 with the Naderites and their attacks on Al Gore (and leaving Bush out of the line of fire). Sixteen years later, sadly, nothing has really changed."

Here we go again. You're gunning down the 97,000 Floridaians who voted for Nader and leaving the 200,000 Democrats and 2.900,000 Republicans who voted for Bush out of the line of fire, not to mention the 3 million registered Florida Democrats who didn't vote at all.
More importantly, you're not holding Gore accountable for his own mistakes and weaknesses. Keep in mind, he didn't adopt his signature cause, which just so happens to be the main plank of the Green Party, until after the 2000 election. But really, why the hell vpcouldn't he inspire just 501 Democrats to get off their asses and go to the polls.
Nader's campaign nor Jill Stein's is frivolous. In order for the Green Party to get on the ballot and receive matching funds, they need to get a a certain percentage of votes. Maybe sometime in the future, we could have weighted ballots, where voters could make their second choice count.

I agree, Peter. Plus there have been reports that the "protesters" tore up a sign a little girl was holding that had been autographed by Hillary. Just so ugly, counterproductive and flat out ignorant.

While I've never experienced an emotional bond with Hillary, I agree with pm that Bernie and supporters behavior hurt more than help the progressive cause.

Fanatics alienating potential allies.

Here we go again with the same, tired, dishonest and thoroughly narcissistic Nader excuses. Even Nader's inner circle abandoned him, as Nader lied about not campaigning in swing states. Once again, you fail to mention New Hampshire. Trashing Gore does not absolve what Nader did on purpose. One of the biggest lies of the last 50 years was Nader saying there were no real differences between Gore and Bush. How'd that work out? Yogi, the rest of us are mature enough to know this.

Gore made the decision to back away from Clinton's legacy, it had nothing to do with Nader's antics. The man couldn't carry his home state, so that he had less than enthusiasm in Florida isn't surprising in the least.

I didn't agree with Nader, I voted for Gore.
Presumably, the purpose of this blog is to help Clinton get elected. If her staff is studying the 2000 election and thinks Nader is the reason Gore list, we're fucking doomed.

Gore backed away from Clinton's Lewinsky scandal. The Lewinsky scandal did hurt the Democrats. Gore didn't carry his home state - Tennessee - because he was too liberal for them, as Tennessee had been drifting to the right for decades. Recall Gore won the popular vote by around half a million votes.

I don't know if PM's purpose of this blog is to elect Clinton, but thankfully we don't see a lot of Trump trolls here. It is hard to see what reason Clinton's team would be studying the 2000 election. The dynamics will be rather different. I was glad to have learned you voted for Gore in 2000.

You shoulda researched Huey Long's perspective on FDR. Then you coulda called yourself precocious.

House Republicans have two types of exploitable vulnerabilities: 1. Areas where they agreed with/enabled Trump e.g. Anti-immigrant positions; fiscally irresponsible tax cuts; birther conspiracy pandering; and others too numerous to mention; and 2. Areas where they disagree with Trump, e.g. Privatizing social security or otherwise diminishing it; voucherizing medicare etc. these themes should be interwoven in the Democratic narratives starting now from Hillary and Bernie. Of course my comment is a complete non-sequitur with Bernie protestors tearing little girls' signs or whatever they are up to now but so are the "protests". The revolution begins by electing Democrats in places left wing ideological purity may not be the winning formula. Trump can be used as a cudgel on every Republican whether they support him or not. Bernie is not going to be President and he needs to decide whether to be an asset or an impediment. BTW 2018 is a very favorable Senate map for Republicans whose state party strength is not going away.

Your statement about Clinton is ahistorical. The latest approval rating taken during his administration was 66%. This was two years after the GOP was slammed in the congressional mid-terms.

Fanatics alienating potential allies.

Exactly. There is no better way to put it.

I voted for Nader, but waited until it was clear Gore had no chance to win Indiana. If he had I would have voted for Gore. As I recall, there were drives in many states to promote the tactic. I've never seen them mentioned on this blog.

It's also conveniently simplistic for a conservative to assume all Hillary protesters are Sanders supporters. Trolling liberals and the left is a favorite sport here.

Yes, Dark Avenge, I am quite aware of Clinton's ratings at the end. And it is also true the Lewinsky scandal and other Bill's f**ckups hurt the Dems. While a portion of the independent vote, which we always need, did not believe in impeachment, they nonetheless felt sullied by the sleaze, and that did hurt Gore and the Dems.

Too bad that tactic spilled over into the swing states. There are very few non-progressives at this site.

He had Holy Joe Lieberman on the ticket, who IIRC denounced Clinton's conduct in no uncertain terms at the time of the scandal and subsequent impeachment.

The only way Gore could've distanced himself from Clinton any further would've been to campaign from the International Space Station.

"The only way Gore could've distanced himself from Clinton any further would've been to campaign from the International Space Station." Bill had that effect on those he betrayed.

Recall the Democratic Senate leadership who had to pay a visit to Bill and convey that their support in any (then) possible impeachment was contingent on his testifying before a grand jury. Recall one of the results of that grant jury testimony resulted in Bill agreeing to surrender his law license when stepping down from office. I despise Lieberman as well so too bad he was right this time.

And, as I pointed out above, recall that the impeachment effort ended in a tactical defeat for the Republicans in 1998. To say that the electorate was less forgiving 2 years later with Holy Joe alongside Al Gore is to engage in delusional thinking,

Hey, rehashing the past helps us so much in the present political moment.

Not learning from it also helps us so much in the present political moment.

Demonize when you can't make a decent argument after I put paid to your facts and so-called logic about Gore Re Lewinsky.

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