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Your host, PM 'Papa' Carpenter


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March 30, 2018


I'm still not seeing any responsibility being taken by these anti Trump conservatives for their part in creating the conditions that made Trumpism possible. And what would a third party made up of anti Trump conservatives look like? What would be their platform? The same one that Trump is already carrying out in the Republican party more effectively than any republican before him?

re: Meyer ... was a former communist

I don't trust anyone who swings from one side of the tree to the far other side!

he he he

Sooo ... he is suggesting that these people stop being ... THEMSELVES?
white supremacist ideology IS the foundation,source and fuel of American racism!
Their world view ie conservative IS who they ARE!

Well of course. They'd take away people's healthcare with a nice smile instead of a malicious sneer. Big difference, that.

A few days ago Max and I were arguing, at cross purposes, about something that is both true and untrue. I agree with Max that there will be for the foreseable future ,something called the Republican Party. But, as the picture above should remind us, the Republican Party is the political party that used to be the party of Lincoln. It hasn’t been that for a generation. Nor is the Democratic Party much like it was before 1950. Still called the Democratic Party though.

Which brings me to this piece by PM. I must say I prefer to have the odds in my favor when placing bets. So I will go with the principaled smart guys leaving the Republican Party because they are the Rodney Dangerfields of the Republican Party. They just don’t get any respect. If anyone else in the Republican Party even notices their absence it will only be to mock them. The Republicans are becoming the trailer park party. Those are the intellectuals they respect.

There is no way in hell the principled conservatives, fellow travelers and apologists for decades of the racism and sexism and religious fascism they deny drive their party, are going to change the course of that party. If anything can influence it I would put my money on the professional pols who concern themselves with statewide or national offices. The writing, demographically speaking, is very very legible. Sure you can hold off the inevitable with voter suppression, outright disenfranchisement and gerrymandering. But even those are doomed to failure. More importantly you can’t walk them back and call them an oopsie later.

So I think any third party will try and suck out what remains of pricipaled Conservative ideologists. While the professional pols try to put a lid back on the racism and sexism. And everybody ignores the religious conservatives because there is literally no shit they won’t swallow. So nobody on the right has to worry about their loyalty.

There are aspects of our current political predicament which have historical precedent. First, in the 1960's both political parties supported the Vietnam war and hedged their bets on civil rights. Because neither party addressed either of these issues in their platform Americans who opposed segregation and the war took to the streets to demonstrate their dissatisfaction with the political binary at the time. Conservatives were also dissatisfied with the GOP which to them was dominated by the eastern old guard and was considered nothing more than "liberalism light". Things came to a head during the 1968 Democratic convention and during Nixon's first term where conservatives saw the expansion of the regulatory state. However, the two parties readjusted their stances and platforms and by 1980 both the Democrats and Republicans represented late 20th century liberalism and conservativism respectively.

Today the real political divide in the USA is between democratic socialists and libertarians. Neither party represents consistently one half of the political divide. Republicans want to deregulate commerce but place restrictions on behavior that offends their sensibilities. Democrats are so dependent on donations from the financial and insurance sector that any reform in areas like healthcare is thwarted.

In 1972 the Democratic Party nominated McGovern and put forth the most liberal platform in history. At the same time the GOP dealt with Watergate. Both events were political disasters for each party but by 1980 the Republicans were the party of Reagan while the Democrats represented late 20th century liberal sensibilities.

In the last election cycle the Libertarian nominees for President were better qualified than either Trump or Clinton. Bernie Sanders, a socialist, came as close to denying Clinton the nomination as Kennedy did in 1980. I believe that Trump is to 21st century Republicans what Nixon was in the mid 70's; both a serious political problem that needs to be expunged but also an opportunity to realign itself so it represents 21st century political ideology.

Your version of civil rights in the mid-60s is utterly wrong: Johnson was THE civil rights president and Goldwater opposed the civil rights laws and ran in the South where the ducks are, as he said. In '64 LBJ ran as the peace candidate and Goldwater as the war candidate, not ruling out the use of nuclear weapons in Vietnam. The war didn't really get going until '65.

In '68 Nixon ran as the peace candidate with a secret plan to end the war. Humphrey tried to get as far from LBJ as he could - and were it not for Nixon secretly sabatoging the Paris talks Humphrey would have been elected.

The Watergate scandal started in '72, had no effect on the election and did not come to fruition until '73-'74 - and four years after the McGovern debacle the Democrats reclaimed the White House.

Clinton beat Sanders by 3 million votes, a landslide. Clinton was the clear choice of the party. Kennedy was the overwhelming favorite of the Democrats - both the party and rank and file - by '78 (two-to-one for Kennedy) but ran poorly against Carter in '80 and would never run for president thereafter. There is no valid comparison between Kennedy in '80 and Sanders in '16.

And Gary Johnson is an idiot.

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