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June 11, 2018


I don't know if you ever saw Zero Dark Thirty but there is apparently a truthful bit in there about how, as part of ascertaining who exactly was living in Bin Laden's compound, the CIA went fishing for toilet trout. Alas the DNA soup found in a sewer did not permit to shed any light on the subject. Nevertheless somebody certainly earned their intelligence star on that mission.

I refused to see Zero Dark Thirty since it lied about torture.

I thought the Supreme Leader didn't poop?

How do know it lied about torture then? I'm just curious about that because I saw it and they didn't. In fact they more or less made the case that torture wasn't working. The only case cited in the movie that actually brought results didn't use torture. But it worked on a guy who had resisted torture. The movie did have characters that both advocated torture and practiced it. But they existed in reality too. You certainly could make the case that the movie didn't make the inefficacy of torture more obvious but that isn't the same as saying it worked.

The underlying claim was torture helped procure information on bin Laden's location, which is a lie. Kathryn Bigelow acknowledged this on numerous occasions. When confronted on a talk show (Colbert?) this was a lie - subsequent evidence after the movie's release reaffirmed no useful information on bin Laden was obtained by torture - she gave the lame-ass answer of "Stuff happens." It was a big deal at the time.

I know it was a big deal. It is the underlying claim part that is bullshit. The movie character that supplied the information was tortured. But the technique that finally elicited the information was not torture. Which by the way is what all the real experts on the subject attest. There are better ways. I would simply advise you watch the movie and make up your mind. I don't know about you but whenever someone tells me what I will see if I watch something I usually find their opinion is bullshit. There are whole websites like Rawstory devoted to spinning bullshit about what you will see in their clips.

I'm quite aware of what the experts say, Peter. "I would simply advise you watch the movie and make up your mind." - Nope, won't give money when the lying is blatant enough. The same is true with "Selma" by the way - a complete fabrication of the interactions between King and Johnson. And I understand there are websites like Rawstory and others, Peter.

That is a principled stand I can respect. There are lots of places I won't give money to just to get an opinion. But I think you will find if you have a decent cable package that it won't cost a nickel to see for yourself. The movie is long past pay per view. I rather expect to be bullshitted by my ideological foes. This does not upset me at all. That's why they are my ideological foes. I don't like being bullshitted by people who are supposed to be on my side of an issue. So I check.

To which dictator are you referring? It is unclear since both are full of shit.

Bigelow herself tacitly acknowledged her big, damaging lie. I gave up cable and watch very little on the Tee-Vee these days. I won't stand for it on "our" side, either, for example "Selma." We are more awash in lies than ever before. Take a stand when we can.

I don't think less of you Max for having a defensible position. Just so you know.


I’m surprised that Corporal Spode aka David Duff hasn’t commented on this, it would be a subject right up his alley.

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