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Your host, PM 'Papa' Carpenter


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June 16, 2018


We separate American criminals from their children all the time. The kids enter the hell of foster care no seems bothered by that. The Obama admin did the same thing , no one was worried about the criminals kids then. What am I missing ?

Two things. First, the children are not incarcerated separately from the parents in our prison system. Second, it was never the official policy of the immigration system to separate children from their parents. It may have occurred for logistical reasons for a short period of time, but it was not intended as a deterrent which is unconstitutional.

Regarding deterrence:

People arriving at the US border are perfectly entitled to do so by US law when they claim asylum. Laws which once upon a time the US promoted around the world. They are not criminals and are entitled by US law to due process. Which does not include automatic incarceration without specific cause. The Obama administration seldom separated children from parents and usually only when there was doubt about parenthood being a fact and for the protection of the children in question. Let’s be clear, Trump is doing this to punish the parents and regardless of the consequences to the children. The blame Obama or the law is pure Trumpian bullshit that is, as usual, driven by malice. That’s what you are missing. Let’s be honest, it is a distinction you wanted to miss isn’t it?

Isn't it interesting that they always want to bring up Obama to defend Trump? Facts aside, this is the same crowd that hated everything Obama did, but somehow it's perfectly fine that Trump does it.

Are we not talking about illegal border crossing here. The border patrol is following the law as written. If the parents are willing to return to there home country , they are quickly reunited with their kiddos. I believe some are trying to use the children as leverage. A despicable act.

Yes it is.. And we know who is doing it. This is also a fact, that Trump says separating the children is bad. But then he lies and says some law that does not exist or somehow the ghost of the still living Obama compels him to do it. Neither does. He could stop it instantly. He chooses not to do so. That is despicable.

Keith, perhaps you should consider keeping the families together and shipping the lot of them up to Canada. 'PeterG' would welcome them all!

Empathy and brains, same as any other Trump supporter.

Or, we could really punish them by sending them to you, old bean.

I think David, above, is making that point, argument, that I so often hear from those who would turn away refugees or others trying to enter. They make the argument that a country's system would be overwhelmed, that these people simply can't be absorbed, that it's not fair to the natives, etc. (Hence David's joking threat about sending all to Canada, Peter)

I often wonder what would in fact happen if there were no borders anywhere? Or lets just talk about the U.S. or Canada. Yes, vet people but otherwise open our country to them. Would it be disastrous? Would our system be overwhelmed?

I would love there to be no borders anywhere.

Dear Ms. Reeves, most of them are not 'refugees', they are economic migrants who have paid considerable amounts of money to people traffickers to assist their journeys to your borders. I don't blame them, in fact, I rather admire their guts!

However, if you really want to know about the pros and cons of mass immigration, ask any old Red Indian, perhaps starting with Sen. 'Fauxcahontas'! It didn't do them much good!

In April the New York Times reported

“Some migrants have admitted they brought their children not only to remove them from danger in such places as Central America and Africa, but because they believed it would cause the authorities to release them from custody sooner.

Others have admitted to posing falsely with children who are not their own, and Border Patrol officials say that such instances of fraud are increasing.”

Look up the Flores Consent decree of 1997 , it pretty much covers how these kids can be handled.

We are in agreement there, David. I certainly don't blame them either. If it were me I'd try to get here, too. But I don't know if I'd have the courage. And yes, the money they pay --an enormous amount relative to what they have and can afford, I'm sure. In some cases, likely all they have in the world.

So your point is that if we allow open borders we will be overtaken, subdued, and nearly annihilated as happened to the Native Americans?

No thanks. I don’t need to look at rules that Trump is disregarding to know what is happening right now.

Yes Dark , I understand , facts can be a scary thing to some folks.

We should also consider the 60 million children separated from their parents since Row v. Wade. Do those on the left worry about them ?

I looked it up, Keith. It would seem to say that minors should not be held in detention centers and should instead be released to their parents or guardians, which to me would indicate they should not be separated in the first place if they are already in the custody of their parents upon arrival.

But please clarify for me what I am missing, if anything?

This policy has zero to do with any laws or national security. This is about increasing the profit margins of the private prison industry. There is nothing pro life or pro family about it. But I've noticed that people who play the abortion card to claim they are pro life, are always the first to dehumanize the already born.

"But I've noticed that people who play the abortion card to claim they are pro life, are always the first to dehumanize the already born."

Boy, ain't that the truth. Let's start by caring for those already among us, no matter their race, status, accidental place of birth.

Happy Father's Day to all the dads out there! And special thoughts for those unable to be with their children today.

Facts aren’t scary, but fools think so. As for Roe vs Wade, I’d be for outlawing abortion as long as the sperm donor is also punished for being an accessory before the fact.

Yea. We do. But that is also why Britain has forward customs clearance in France isn’t it? To stop them from reaching Britain where you too would be legally obligated to evaluate a request for asylum. The really ironic part is so many of them come from places in the world that Britain stole as colonies and bled white of their resources. I can’t wait to see how your FTA negotiations go with all the countries inhabited by people you don’t like.

You may be surprised to learn that I am much if favor of blocking immigrants to Canada. But it just includes democracies that elect nativist governments.

Most of them are economic refugees. Just like all the other waves of immigrants into both Canada and the US were. Just like the Irish were during the famine fleeing the effects of British mercantilist policies that were literally killing them. Those refugees fleeing for other reasons, like Jews fleeing Nazism, are the exception rather than the rules. And, they like modern Muslims, were often turned away. All anybody really has to do to decide which side they want to be on. You are either with the people giving the Nazi salutes or against them. Want me to link to the The Independent article showing British neo-nazis doing that.

I think you are missing the part where criminals convicted in the US also have their children rounded up and put in jail. Oh wait. They don’t actually do that do they?

We should also consider how insisting they be born but not supplied with the necessities of life including education and health care is just as vile. I’d say worse myself but people can disagree on these points.

Ever noticed how many conservatives strive so hard to beat their court ordered child support? Or pay for abortions when required?

Yes, D.A.! You have nailed it. Lackluster attempts to hold sperm donors accountable --maybe they pay child support and maybe they don't. And even if they do, it's only money and maybe the father cannot be burdened with the anti-abortion outcome, that is, a child, if they prefer not to be. Well, I guess a birth mother can also walk away. Then we have an orphan. An abandoned child. Yeah, Roe v Wade is brilliant, and so fair. Not.

As a birth mother myself, I did not "walk away" from my baby. I placed her with a nice couple through a legal adoption, arranged before she was born. I know you're not trying to paint all birth mothers with a broad brush, but please do realize there are many who do or treat us like we don't count.

Oh, of course, Anne. I was only trying to make the point that it's the females who are punished if there is no legal recourse for an unwanted pregnancy. And then I had to acknowledge that of course a woman can walk away, too, just like a man can. And that, consequently, if both parents walk away it is horrible for an unwanted baby. All of which is why I agree that women should have choice and that if we instead punish women then we should also punish men. Just as D.S. said.

Sorry, I meant to write, "D.A."

And I should add that your's, Anne, was a beautiful, selfless choice to make.

Boy ain't that the truth!

As I presently look out at my two beautiful, conscious and kind young adult children, as we head out for our Father's Day dinner, all I can think of is: kudos to you, Anne.

Let us pause to consider the troll who spewed dishonest excuses towards the most odious behavior we have seen yet from Trump (in part courtesy of that great humanitarian, Stephen Miller) - and then, without a trace of irony or self-awareness, tries to come off as some pro-lifer.

Thank you. She's 31 now and I hope she's every bit as healthy and happy as I wanted her to be.

Thank you, Max. And happy Father's Day to you. Sounds like your children take after their dad.

And a special Happy Father's Day to our host and wishing all the best to Phil and his amazing daughter.

I second that!

Thanks. Ah... I think they're my betters. Mostly I'm grateful.

Anyone who disagrees with max is a troll? Ok got it . Enforcing the law ,is odious behavior. Claro. And pointing out 60 million dead babies means I pretend to be pro life. I am learning so much here.

You don't know right from wrong. Happy Father's Day.

I’ll just leave this here and go drowned some kittens for Max.

You still don't know right from wrong, pampered white boy.

And then there is this,,, now to find some puppies

Tired, discredited whataboutism. You still don't know right from wrong, pampered white boy.

Ad hominem is the final redoubt of the ignorant

You were pampered, all right.

Seems that Keith is a bit of a last word freak.

Ok Ann u got me I will just put this last thing and go play with my grands , for all those who responded without calling names ,,thanx enjoy the music.

Ok max u enjoy it too

What Peter said yesterday sums it up well: "The blame Obama or the law is pure Trumpian bullshit that is, as usual, driven by malice."

No, anyone whose concern about children stops as soon as they make a successful transition from the womb to the real world.

Zero Hedge? That labels you as a troll.

Dark , the article quotes Mother Jones, Newsweek and one other left wing rag.
If you don’t believe your Co-religionists , I am kinda in aquandry here. Would you believe National Reveiw. I get it , your feelings are what’s important. But someday you are gonna choke on that red pill. I hope max is there and knows the Heimlich maneuver.

“The Devil can quote Scripture to suit His purpose.”

“Do men gather grapes from thistles, or figs from thorns?”

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