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Your host, PM 'Papa' Carpenter
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« The "cultural vacuum" of Donald J. Trump | Main | POTUS, in a nutshell »

July 01, 2018

Comments

He hates the people they hate AND he openly insults and denigrates those same people. This validates their hate and gives them license to keep on hating. Plus, some of them see this abhorrent behavior as “refreshing honesty.”

He’s just openly acting the way they feel and they love him for it.

"The Liberal Left, also known as the Democrats … want Open Borders. Crime would be rampant and uncontrollable!"

I guess the whole Trump family and Trump administration must have come up from the southern border then.

Yes but when anyone on the left shows them some refreshing honesty, they get all offended and call it hate speech. Nobody dares disagree with dear leader Kim Jong Don.

Let’s get uncomfortable. Quite a lot of this angst driven malice originates on the left. Not the overt racism mind you for that is the glory of the right. And it isn’t just America that suffers from this. In Britain Corbyn is severely constrained in his own Labour Party by the same anti-immigrant and nativist sentiments shared by the Bernie wing of the Democrats. Nothing racist at all they tell you we just need to protect Americans against economic driven migrants.

Unfortunately to believe this you would have to not know that almost every wave of immigration to the US was driven by economics and the search for opportunity. In the few instances where waves of refugees were driven by oppression and the search for liberty, like the Jews fleeing Nazism, they were often turned away. Which is not to say any particular wave were well received by all but the particularly nasty reaction to these waves are clearly driven by racism. Why, asks Donald, can we not draw our teeming hoards yearning to breath free, from Norway? Sorry Donald but their reserves of teeming hoards have long been exhausted.

Doesn’t matter. It is too late to reverse the demographic changes written by birth rates. Soon enough the majority of Americans will not be white. My personal opinion is that this cannot happen soon enough and I apply that logic to my own country as well. If you can’t rid the world of identity politics you can equalize the power of identities and render them less toxic. I am pretty sure right wing racist policies once rendered ineffective by demographics at the National and State level will abate.

Isn't all politics identity politics?

Nice post. While Bernie is pretty bad and the American left fairly hopeless, Jeremy Corbyn is an order of magnitude much, much worse. If you think Trump's mouth is a Putin cockholster (and we know it is), Corbyn's mouth is a far bigger cockholster.

In 2012, Mitt Romney, beloved by no particular faction of the GOP, got 61M votes running against a popular incumbent president.

In my opinion, Trump's getting a few more votes than Mittens did had far more to do with the Dem candidate and the campaign she ran than it did with love for Trump.

Political malpractice sometimes has consequences in elections, and 2016 was one of those times.

Absolutely. White just happens to be the dominant one in the US right now but it is fading. Oddly enough this driven by economIc success and not failure. The domestic birth rates in virtually developed economy fall below replacement rates. Without immigrants negative economic growth is inevitable. Not to mention the difficulty of dealing with baby booms when boomers go from workers to retirees and large consumers of health care.

I am surprised at the inability of people to think this through. The Brexiters believe they can use their moat to cherry pick the best immigrants that other countries like India have paid to educate while keeping out the riff raff. And also hope to make wonderful trade deals with countries whose citizens, they make clear, are riff raff. One thing they never seem to get is that their most ardent racists or nativists are unlikely to appreciate the black person they are abusing is a professor and not a plumber when they go about making that persons life hell. For the record the British Government’s policy, May’s policy, is called hostile environment. It’s most recent use was to rid the UK of perfectly legal but Black citizens. Not residents mind you, actual citizens.

Yea I have to disagree with that. Notwithstanding the truly amazing effort and treasure spent by conservatives to turn Hillary Clinton from the most popular female figure in the entire world into Cruella Deville, the same would have applied to every candidate the Democrats might have put forward. The targeting for disenchantment conversion from Democrats to Trump Voters, was exquisitely executed. And entirely resentment based on white male entitlement. With a side order of Hillary as a right winger to disenchant the far left. It worked great and would have worked on anyone. Except maybe that a male Democrat probably wouldn’t have gotten nearly the female turnout that Clinton did. Which gave her the popular vote.

"One thing they never seem to get is that their most ardent racists or nativists are unlikely to appreciate the black person they are abusing is a professor and not a plumber when they go about making that persons life hell."

This.

"Honestly, I don't know how a 50 year old or older black man in America could not be a racist" - Chris Rock, some years ago, probably got the words a bit mixed up.

I've thought about that ever since - because about 90% of the men I know who are black and who are older than me, I marvel at the graciousness these true gentlemen possess. For decades I've been lucky enough to regularly be the only white guy in the room. Witnessing, hearing, the lack of prejudice is nothing short of miraculous, remarkable. It is certainly true there are black women and men who are indeed prejudiced against white people; I deal with that routinely as well. But overall and in my fairly extensive experience the prejudice rate among black American adults is much lower than white American adults. The statistics on whites self-identifying as racist has been steady for decades, no fewer than 35% - and those are only the ones who admit it.

Who knows? One depressing statistic was how marginally Republican wives, in the end, voted for Trump. I personally believe Biden was one Democrat who could have won. It was just not in the cards. I bet the biggest, still hidden, statistic are the number of Berniebots who either stayed home, or voted for the other candidates except President.

Some incredibly stupid people on the left swallowed a ton of bullshit about the Democratic nominee. Obviously Ed is in the moron class.

Fuck you if you blame Democrats for this mess. Fuck anybody who blames anyone except Republicans and the morons who directly or indirectly elected Trump.

I have been asked more than a few times why I believe what I believe. How is it that a small business owner which I have been my whole life but for a few years, is a socialist? How is it my views on race and sexuality are deemed by others to be virtually race and sex treason? The truth is it took me a lifetime to get there. But I had good instruction along the way. You know what I want in my old age? I want a non dystopian future where we get the best of what humanity has to offer as individuals, a rewarded meritocracy, that takes care of everyone who, through whatever misfortune, does not rise to eminence or conventional success. That demands that I be as blind as I can be when it comes to race or sexuality or any other factor.

Obviously, to conservatives like Duff, this makes me a Marxist. For such have always paid their own way and resent paying for lesser mortals. They always seem to remember crawling out of the womb every morning to go to work building the schools they will later attend. And paying taxes to train their future teachers and everything else. What they have distributed to them by government is their due. Everybody else is a Marxist freeloader.

Ya gotta laugh!

I think you missed what Rock said about how old black guys respond once whitey leaves the room. It could change your mind, assuming you're white.

They spent 24 years slandering and lying about Hillary, and it worked.

They had nowhere near that much of a foundation of mendacity for any other Democrat.

Less the campaign she ran, and more the decades of propaganda and slander against her.

No doubt that's a regular thing. Chris Rock made that comment while still in his thirties. In my case these are all long time friends, colleagues - and important mentors, and none to a person comes off that way. We continue to all hang.

"Fuck you if you blame Democrats for this mess. Fuck anybody who blames anyone except Republicans and the morons who directly or indirectly elected Trump."

Worth saying twice.

Just a question here. Hillary Clinton is not in jail. It would seem that either the Republicans and Trump and the Justice Department and the FBI have failed to find the evidence they claimed to have to lock her up. I do not think I can buy the argument that fabrications would only have worked against Clinton. I think they would have worked on anybody. Hence my endorsement of the PM argument in favor of serving the bastards their own medicine.

Well I think when the goal is making people's lives miserable, it's not surprising they don't think things through. But I have to ask how it's possible for a country to deport its own citizens. Where are they supposed to go?

I wouldn't call Duff a conservative. Just a hateful, dishonest troll.

Actually, it turns out that Duff IS a Marxist freeloader. There is the recent news that British millionaires colluded with Russia to get Brexit through.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/06/the-british-russia-collusion-scandal-is-breaking-wide-open.html

" “I wonder what the Russians wanted from me?” What they wanted was perfectly obvious: Banks funded a political referendum in which Russia had a strong interest in passing. Russia could not directly finance the referendum, but Banks could. Therefore, what they would want is for him to use some of the money they were dangling before him to support Brexit, which he did. At this point, it seems virtually certain that Russia did use Banks"

So not only does Duff have black African relatives, but is also in cahoots with Russian Marxists for financial gain. What a guy!

The people in question were called the Windrush generation and iit is named after the ship that carried these invited immigrants from the Caribbean. The post war labor shortage in Britain made immigration essential. They were invited but not well documented so the recent conservative governments will of Britain took this magnificent opportunity to deny them pensions and health care and to deport them. Worse still those who went to their MPs for help were often ratted out by those MPs. They are still trying to figure out how many were cheated of justice. These people weren’t just imported labor they were British citizens. But they tried to send them back to the Caribbean islands minus the benefits they had earned.

If you are disagreeing that Mitt Romney received only 2M fewer votes than Trump did, then you would be wrong. If you are disagreeing that the Dems ran an inept campaign, then we really do disagree.

In my opinion, we would have done no worse had we dusted off some old Chicago alderman or maybe the Allegheny County Jury Commissioner to run against Trump. Instead, we picked the one politician in the world with negatives as high as the Don's, thereby leaving the door opened just a crack for the Russkies.

I hope that the lack of self-reflection apparent in several replies to my post (not yours) is not typical of the Dems who run political campaigns, but I'm not optimistic. Political analyses that blame election losses on the stupid voters, or the corrupt opposition, do not engage with reality, in my opinion.

By the way, Hillary lost the white women demographic by 11 points in the national popular vote, 53-42.

My assessment is that the assaults from the Bernie wing of the left did most of the damage. Essentially Bernie's policies are indistinguishable from Trump's policies and his very overt attacks accusing the Democratic party of "betraying" the American people were vary successful in persuading voters to stay home once he was out of the race. I am not sure why those particular "progressives" would be unhappy with Trump. Protectionist policies such as Bernie wanted? Check. Immigration policies such as Bernie proposed? Check.

So, we can blame the stupid voters, not the desultory campaign that failed to engage those voters? Check.

That 40 percent of the Dem primary electorate (the stupid 40 percent, I guess) preferred a bedraggled old socialist no one ever had heard of to the supremely well-heeled and well-connected favorite, with her household name, ex-POTUS husband, and boxcar full of endorsements, should have sent alarm bells ringing in Clintonland. But it didn't.

They were complacent, and didn't take Trump seriously. They thought they couldn't lose, and sleepwalked through the campaign. Then, they paid the price on election day, and we get to pay the price for the next two-and-a-half years, at least.

Yes, she had extremely high negatives, which is major baggage in a national election.

It is very difficult to win the presidency when so many people hate your candidate's guts before the campaigning even begins.

No I think you can blame profound ignorance which exists on the left if not is such a large degree as it does on the right. Maybe Clinton could have won if she told the right whoppers as Trump and Bernie so passionately did. But they still would have been lies. When it comes to wise economic and social policy or negotiating compromises within a political party like the Democrats nuance is required. Interests collide. I am curious as to what sacrifices you expected Black voters to make so Hillary could pick up more white votes? They had a perfectly authentic racist to vote for and that's who quite a lot chose.

That's why Bernie flopped ultimately by the way. Longtime factions within the democratic party, the ones Bernie accused of betraying the American people, were the American people. Extremists don't do nuance. They have disciples or enemies. That's true on the left and the right.

Now they can go back to their dreams about what they are going to do with the Democratic party once they drive the majority of them away. Seeing as Clinton did receive a substantial majority of the vote it is obvious that a majority of the Americans who voted did not agree with you about how inspiring that campaign was.

I hesitate to step in here Edd, but I will guarendamntee you there was a yuuuuge, anti Hilliary vote. Trump was perceived by many on the right as the least worst choice. B O made Donald possible.
A fairly common comment I hear, is yeah Donald is a dick,and should listen more than he talks, but he is pissing off the right people.

And this is exactly how you define yourself.

Yes anti Hilliary, guilty as charged.
Pissing of the right people ,, yes. The left, the press, the national chamber of commerce, the Koch Brothers, Nancy and Chuck. Muttie Merkel , the Canadian wimp, nato, most every Frenchman , the Chinese, the norks, you, and most of all Establishment Republicans.

We may have to destroy the government to save the republic.

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