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Your host, PM 'Papa' Carpenter


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August 24, 2019


I can’t imagine why Trump even bothers to go. I can see why he wants Putin back in. All these other leaders are enemies and it would be nice to have one friend for a play date. Basically this has been the pattern of his parvenu life. He has always sought acceptance by the elites who laugh behind his back. If they wanted to drive Trump nuts any other of these leaders need only confer within ear shot of Trump tete-a-tête-à-tête and laugh at anything at all. And Trump would seethe because they were laughing at him.
The guy with the biggest problem is Johnson of course. You can’t sniff two butts at the same time. And he is getting rather desperate for either the US or the EU to throw him a lifeline.

I thought he wanted a hard Brexit? Doesn't that mean he thinks he can go it alone? Please fill in anything I am missing.

Aaaaand we're off. I just read on some reporters twitter feed (forgot to note the name. Aaron somebody):

"Trump, struggling to speak, cites "somebody who came in the other day" to make a fact-free claim that "tech companies" manipulated 15 million votes in Hillary Clinton's favor in 2016.

He then seems to have a hard time remembering Emmanuel Macron's name."

Cute little booger isn't he? Such a source of pride.

Oh no Anne, he doesn’t want a hard Brexit because that would damage the British economy a great deal and for a very long time. Basically he got the job because he promised he was going to show everyone that he (only “he could” sound familiar?) could show those EU types and rewrite the unacceptable deal May negotiated with them. And he put their backs to the wall by declaring Britain was out in October unless the deal changed. This is of course exactly like pointing a gun at your own head and threatening to shoot unless you get what you want. Because they have to clean up your bloody corpse. And that will show them.

The Brexiters always had this weird idea that the EU owed them a deal that made it more advantageous to not be a member than it was to be a member. I cannot imagine why. Their interest is to attach the biggest possible price tag to leaving. And that is what they are going to do.

He wants to wave around a Hard Brexit as a bargaining tool in a desperate game of chicken with the EU. This shows his "resolve." Sort of like holding a gun to his head and saying "negotiate or I'll shoot!"

Wrote "gun to head" analogy at same time as Peter. What does that say about us?

Just thought of that classic scene from Blazing Saddles.

That was exactly my first thought.

Doesn't that kind of smack of entitlement? "We give you nothing and in return we demand everything"?

That is exactly what the Brexiters sold in their referendum on Brexit, that Britain would have all the benefits of being in the EU but none of the obligations or costs. It was entirely based on a truly breathtaking sense of entitlement. But they didn’t expect to win anymore than Trump did. When they did win it took very little time for all the hard core Brexiters like Boris to head for the hills. Leaving May to take the blame for the inevitable end to the negotiations in which Britain got jack shit. Now Boris is back to save the day. Except he is still getting jack shit.

How long do you think Boris will last as Prime Minister?

Oh, until about November 10th or so.

It is one of those apt comparisons which spring to mind in people who see the same horror show.

What jsrtheta said. Give or take a week.

Peter, you're knowledgeable and erudite but I have to disagree with some of your analysis which is logical, but likely wrong. Notice the likely, because I don't know. Boris isn't a fool and he has energised some idiot section of the English believers. May couldn't do that because she would sit quietly in a side room awaiting some pronouncement or other, made to look weak and foolish. Boris would be holding a press conference or doing a silly dance to show how much he didn't care. Would they have banished him? I think he has slightly shifted things because the Europeans know that he'll carry through. At this point, I'm considering that there could possibly be some kind of a backdown, not because there is any enthusiasm for backing Boris but because he's an awkward bugger who'll not back off himself. And they will lose as well. I have no idea, but I hope that you're right. Of course, Trump is also doing his best to break up Europe and he has "tremendous" power against countries that have treated the USA so badly. Tremendously badly.

As a product of England, that was made there and forever connected to the people who make it a great place to live, sometimes I have to play devil's advocate. I don't think that there was ever a great sense of entitlement. Certainly not from your average citizen.The right wing press aggravated a sense of grievance to explain a decline in power and authority in the world. They have an audience.

Boris can risk a hard Brexit (He wanted to become PM.., by any means). So can most rich Britons. They might even benefit if we're reducing the concept of a win to wealth.. There exists an alliance between the very rich and the poor. We already know how it will go. We know who will suffer and it won't be Boris and his Eton mates. Actually, we don't know at all except that the rich will be okay, and that's the shame of it.

You are right about the Brexiter’s theory that the result was all May’s fault and that she did not negotiate correctly somehow. The problem with this theory is that May put Brexiters in charge of negotiations and they were well represented in Cabinet. And they quit as soon as it became evident what the results of those negotiations were going to be. Which was the very opposite of the way they claimed it would go. On issue after issue they were forced to eat crow. It was quite interesting to watch play out.

Well now they are completely in charge. They have no one to blame now except the EU for not giving them what they expected. And they still aren’t getting anything. It was never about correctly demanding what the Brexiters wanted or who was demanding it. It was always about the EU saying no. You can’t have the privileges of being in their club and not paying dues or subscribing to their four founding principals. That was made clear from the beginning of negotiations. It hasn’t changed. So now you have a very divided Britain and a very united EU. There are no cards to play that weren’t played by May. It will be costly but Britain will get its Brexit. The terms of which will be what the EU decided they will be.

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