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Your host, PM 'Papa' Carpenter


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December 10, 2019


I'd like to lock her in a room with my right wing relatives for 24 hours. She'd come out screeching and foaming at the mouth.

Of course what she probably does is sit around with lefties all day TALKING about the right wingers. She's never actually met one in the wild.

Russian agitprop.

How do you persuade a Trump drooling fanboy if you let them do all the talking while you just sit there and listen patiently? Yeah that'll show 'em! Plus, she's coming from a completely biased point of view. Trying to persuade someone who calls themselves a conservative to be more like a progressive, forgetting the fact that both of those words have become distorted beyond all recognition especially the word "conservative". You will never change the mind of a cultist. You can only defeat the cult leader and his congressional disciples at the ballot box next November. I will not tolerate any point of view that promotes dictatorship. I will not tolerate their intolerance.

Like everyone else here, I think I see a problem. I don't know about anyone else but I have never won an argument by not putting forth an argument. Seems like kind of stupid advice.

Nor should you.

It does no good to talk to them. Like you say it's a cult. Which means they'd have to be debriefed by a professional. They're so brainwashed that him behaving like a dictator is viewed as a positive. You can't converse with that.

Btw does anyone have a clue what a political therapist might be or who her patients are?

I would suppose that her "patients" are the progressives who need help trying to persuade those that don't agree with them that they know what is better for them than they do. Which is why I thought but forgot to mention in my original comment that she was coming from a biased point of view. If finger wagging liberals are her patients, then she must be running a cracking trade as long as they don't realize that trying to persuade others who don't agree with them, let alone Trump supporters is hopeless.

I think she spends her time talking to lefties about a gentler way to talk down to those who disagree with them. And I agree she's probably never encountered a Trumpist in the wild. And the first rule of the wild is to be aware of your surroundings and avoid danger. And Trumpists are dangerous.

Right, this is perfectly sound advice for run-of-the-mill martial disagreements, so long as one of the spouses isn’t a gaslighting abusive alcoholic with a massive persecution complex. As it is, we need advice on how to remain psychologically intact while in the presence of Orwellian brainwashing.

Very well said. But I don't think that kind of advice will be coming anytime soon. If we wish to remain psychologically intact in these scary times- which I'm not even in the best of times- I'm afraid we have to figure that out ourselves.

I was curious about that and went looking. Several difference sites used phrases like "hands on healing" and "creating a language" and - my personal favorites - " It’s a therapy for those who do not need, nor want, to be fixed" and "the role of therapist and patient are interchangeable". Which sounds like there's no reason to show up for your appointment much less pay for it.

I suspect a person would be better off just yelling at the tv and avoiding their relatives.

My therapist friends tell me Trump has been great for their business!

Yes, “political therapist” gave me a good laugh. I suppose anyone can call themselves a doctor just because they kissed some toddler’s boo-boo. In the same way, you’ll find all sorts of quacks out there calling themselves therapists who, let’s just say, haven’t exactly put in the 3,000 post-graduate supervised hours required by every state to get a clinical license.

I'm thinking that the Peanuts' Lucy was on to something. "Psychiatric Help. 5 Cents. The Doctor Is In." ;-)

You're all re-inforcing each other and I do understand the reason for that, but I have a son who has gone over to the dark side (as you would see it) and I have no idea how, or why, this has happened, but he finds himself at odds with all his siblings and never takes a backward step. He's not a Trump acolyte but he doesn't think that he's too bad either. It's difficult to deal with. He tells me that I'm intolerant and I can't argue with that.

He has an IQ in the genius range and a complete disinterest in compromise. Because he's right and you're wrong. Which opinion is exactly what I'm seeing here.

I don't think that you're being asked to not put forward an argument. Just hear them out. And know, for sure, that some of them are good people.

You all go to sleep so early. Goodnight and goodbye folks. I've loved being here.

I have many friends and relatives in the same camp. They’re fine people, even though their brains are soaked in rightwing gibberish, and so we get along by not discussing politics. The problem here is that this dingbat “political therapist” thinks you can persuade them by simply listening, when really all that does is keep things from escalating so that you can extract yourself from the conversation as smoothly as possible.

I’ve made friends recently with a guy at my local pub. A former paramedic who’s been going through some tough times, he’s a sweet soul, hilarious, and a great conversationalist. But then talk turned to politics the other day, and he’s convinced Hillary is a murderer, Obama was terrible for the economy, and Biden is a pedophile. So I sat still and listened for a moment till he got it out of his system, muttered something to the effect of “I don’t quite see it that way,” and quickly changed the subject. I mean, what else are you supposed to do?

We're tired. We spend all day with Trump for a president. ;-(

Mary, you wrote something that kind of sums up the problem with the Trump situation at this point and listening to anyone who still supports him. "...but he doesn't think that he's too bad either."

Yes he is. He's too bad. He's very bad. Trump isn't your garden variety right wing kook or an extreme conservative or any other traditional political opponent. He isn't even conservative. He's not even a politician. He's a reality tv man who was put into office with the help of a foreign foe to carry out their agenda, is planning on doing it again, is best friend to authoritarian leaders around the globe and who is dismantling the institutions of our country and our alliances. Not to mention that he seems to be mentally ill. He's a president in name only. What he is is a menace. He's dangerous and he's getting scarier by the day.

And so the days of being able to sit and listen are gone. After all he's done and is doing there's nothing to listen to. He has to be voted out or impeached out or prosecuted out. He has no redeeming qualities. He is a very bad man. Listening is pointless.

Mary I'm very uncomfortable with your last sentence. I hope that doesn't mean you are going away and not coming back. I enjoy your posts and your insights. I have many family members that I love and care about deeply that are either full Trump supporters or don't see how bad he truly is. And some of them have college degrees. It's very difficult talking to them but unfortunately the only way most of us can deal with it is just change the subject or ignore them. Arguing is pointless because being a Trump supporter goes far beyond simply having different political views that can be debated. Trying to engage only devolves into a shouting match and/or name calling. These are truly depressing times we are living in. I don't know what it's going to take for honest respectful communication to return or if we have always been this way and simply going through especially hostile periods in our history and calming down a little at other times. All I know is that it is long past time for this madness to end.

I didn't catch that goodbye at the beginning of her post. Surely she's not going. ??

I hope not.

Anne and Freesia, do you know how lovely you are? So many thanks, because I was about to give up.

I'll tell you what, Anne. You're twice as clever as me, and there is no college degree on earth that can change that. I love what you write, how you write it, how you home in on the point of the exercise, and how modest you are. We're all captive to the circumstances of our birth which meant that I over-achieved, and you didn't fulfil your potential. You're frigging clever, and I've known that since I started to read this blog. Most of all you're a good person.

Freesia, you're a breath of fresh air. Insightful and lovely.

Jason, you're great as well. A really good writer, and obviously an intellectual. You probably know, as well as I do, that you can't just desert your entire family when you disagree, however profoundly. Stay together, laugh at each other, even mockery is better than indifference. My Trump supporting son is roundly mocked all the time. But he'll never be ostracised from this family because he's one of us. And if you ever need a helping hand he will be there for you, faster than my other sons. Irony eh?

Indeed. With me, my immediate family is the odd Democratic duck in a flock full of Republicans. Our get togethers with extended family are meaningful and fun. Just don’t talk politics!

I think you're swell Mary. One of my favorite commenters here.

I second that.

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